ABCchurch

De ja vu

2011-10-10T18:36:00.000-07:00

Some ABC Journos might this week get a bit worried when their own wisdom reflects the reactionary and finally island like logic of Margaret Mead this week See here quickfiz.blogspot.com

One thing many Journos refuse to believe about themselves is that they are religious. They see themselves as anything but . Does it take one to know one? There is none so blind as one who 'sees ' the problem in another, but not see it in themselves . Alternatively , maybe there is something in the water out there ?

This perspective does not come from those journos call "religious" but those who study the human condition .

The old foggies at qanda want to watch out for those prepared to question

2011-06-20T17:02:00.000-07:00

qanda tonight .

Did you notice the young geek who dared to speak heresy in church last night - couldn't close him down even with an angry boy. (" don't look at me" the blessed saint of ABC gen Y said)
The Heretic used that word Liberal, and without hestitation qualification or cynicism - and the congregation's mouths dropped - how dare he ! The point is, he wasn't advocating one party over another , just truth telling and proper scientific discussions - something that ABCTV will go into history celebrating kindergarten level engagement on.

Guilt,Original Sin, Denial and Redemption are back

2011-06-08T20:59:00.000-07:00

Careless theologians might celebrate that , at last , the ABC has brought Guilt,Original Sin and Denial are back into the conversation . Perhaps not so much the word "guilt ", but certainly the feeling of it. The PM qanda and Broadcasters preach righteousness with an urgency unheard of in their youth . The feeling is clearly that we are all sinners and carry a burden of guilt ..... it is in the headlines and the words of our leaders ." its the right thing to do " "should "

BUT ,Like the worst kind of church its the kind of sermon where the sinners are outside and the righteous are inside . The righteous being absolved by riding bikes and recycling rubbish. The members inside claim those outside are in denial of the truth ..... but who knows . The real truth maybe not said - denied or hidden. It could be that the insiders are higher up some righteous ladder but who would know ? Who cares and why ?

But no reason for complacency or ignoring the facts - penance is no substitute for proper payment . The big theological question is not how much I sin compared to how much you sin ( typical cheap grace scenario) but whether by breathing or farting, we all sin.
The reality is if carbon dioxide is the worry they say it is , we are all in the shit as it were .Original Sin is back - with a vengeance. and its return is making people nervous about all sorts of things they weren't previously worried about - like eating meat and killing animals. If footprint is the issue , then we all share the blame . As for guilt ,you don't hear the word ,but you smell in in the wind .
The popularity of the carbon tax is understandable in this moral context . But is the CT a substitute tax , a token or a proper payment or purchase or redeeming tax? One thing is clear ; there is a lot of tokenism is the temple taxes, and not much true reconciliation- of who pays.
Whatever happened to the Liberals love , not of temple tax, but "user pays" - much more truly liberal in philosophy , substance and sustainability.
Good theology would for clarity sake say, clearly that , while original sin exists , the only way to tackle sin productively is to target particular sins and pay the full cost price for each of them ( only suspect economists advertisers and polys would say otherwise .....but they appear to have their sway) . A CT will not pay full price - its a token tax , and worse still it doesn't target the real sinners - only big sinners will pay ( whatever that means - biggest thing in town will be environment court) . And while maid Julia's men will rob everyone, good people will receive a handout and .....bless the pope . ( So like dream, its not really funny ....is it? ) do ( predictably it is going to build the god of government ) but which more prerogative and focused taxes like full taxes have been doing ( and should still do )
The real test of a good tax is whether it works to give both effective use of taxes and yields an acceptable level of reconciliation- but without the high and irrational cost of penance . The CT is trying to do lots of things ----including plain tokenism and irrational guilt mediation .
More people are going to church though!

At Qandary its always the same old worry warriors

2010-08-12T07:09:00.000-07:00

Come together they did for the population sermon on ABCTV . It wasn't exactly said , but the problem wasn't us and our use of resources , but others outside the church who were creating this huge problem of resource use.
Whatever you think of John Elliot he was right - the way to reduced abuse of resources is still through economic growth .
Too of the high priests called Bob and Tim haven't studied economics , so the ABC just didn't go there.
Amazing how much easier it is for the ABC to find something to debate when the pathetic prejudices of people come to light at election time . As always , Qandary started and ended in one.

The Vicars of Dismay

2010-07-15T17:11:00.000-07:00

Jennifer Byrne was in some dismay the other day. She invited Hitchens to the lectern , only to find he's preaching heresy . The shock jocks get a real shock - now there's novelty ! Well , according to her anyway he was being heretical ; she called him racist .
For many switched off ABC watchers of the past , the lack of encouragement to celebrate life, in purely secular books, is very noticable.
Hitchens , it seems to me, is honest to his worldview . Jennifer on the other hand , while she's not alone in living in the past ' is holding onto doctrines that just don't stand up to the historical evidence - specifically - the failure of the modern women's movement to liberate women, and its partner - secularism and reactionaries failure to inspire anyone but the Stoics .
One only has to look at the very popular but highly reactionary Vicar of Dibley ( and other very popular reality cum fantasy cum comedy shows) to see how reactionaries, like marxists, build their case and maintain their momentum ( shock value) by using someone else foundations .
The long term problem for the reactionary position is that doesn't have any sustainability on its own - its somewhat parasitic ( guess why the ABC are not running "The war on Everything Anymore? ) . Dawn French cannot keep up the pretence of being so available without dragging the story down. And the dumb and stupid people in church never alone keep one going . The constant tearing down of the foundations leaves little to keep building on .
If you think this careless tearing down of the tough stuff is not happening in the West , observe the failure of secularism to inspire women and the unconscious way the issue of motivation is now going to be a key Australian election issue for our culture ( education , migration, influence and leadership) In other words, its not just people that threaten us but the very power of their ideas

Women should leave this church

2010-02-17T17:12:00.000-08:00

The more I think about this picture on the wall of the church, the more it makes me sad.
The ABC have been promoting it for ages like it says something significant about good ART .Its rather symbolises the doldrums and cul de sacs in ART .
After all, the men seem to get "the fantasy "bit , while the women get "the heaps of regrets "; and our kids are still stuck in this bad dream in a bigger way than we were.
Tell me I am wrong . If its true, its a crime, and its not fiction .If its true , many men are hypocritical and are afraid to tell the whole truth .

Too many broken hearts - too many avoidable mistakes. If there was absolution in this church, they wouldn't have to keep playing this depresssing lament every time we go to worship .
Outside of it , Love can still change everything even when you have failed . Ask the toughest men you have ever met (eg Martin Luther King, Mandella and Ghandi)

All men are not liars, but their little brains don't need much information to present it as an excuse to get what they want (esp the new tricks like contraceptives ,drugs,danger, good times, quickfix ).
Men are not simply two faced about sex and love, they just hide some of their feelings when an nice shape comes along and... they share the same dilemma as most human beings - they don't quite know what they want and how to get it, so when 5 minutes of fun turns up they are tempted to take it.

The important BOTTOM LINE HERE is this FACT: There isn't a male on the planet who wants to marry a women who gives herself away. If you want you or your daughters to have long relationships you need to face those facts and talk about it more openly - come out!
Whatever happened to the passion of women for their own? You don't have to be a wowser - just clear and ' yes I've changed my mind or, no its being strong like we need to be " . I used to enjoy the passion of "The coming out show" even though I sensed it was too reactionary and not well targeted enough to drive good practice with the failed sharing practice in many marriages . Of course you can leave , and yes it will make you a better person.
So, men are not by nature the problem . The problem was the sexual freedom argument was too simple, too smart and too much suited our tendency to blame the other person; a simple excuse attractive to rebellious teenagers with more hormone than experience and good sense in their veins.
Time, I say to dig a bit deeper and sing a different chorus. Time to, in practice, structure and place of worship, recognise that men and women are different .Their genes and bodies say so . Time to recognise that we like it that way, so how do we respect each other differences and support each others strengths and weaknesses?
Time for truth and confession in church
If we care about each other, we will know that some kids have no role models in these matters, but they desperately need them . Seeing adults deal with and admit their wrong choices can really help them.
So what if women tend to BE fickle and men to tend to fail to see beyond the logic of the little brain. Women are often more emotional, men more objective . How can we , all so different, build courage and conviction for our children to grow comfortable in old age together.
We've been watching . "THE GOOD LIFE" , that great old BBC drama, built around lifestyle choices, but whose real strength is in the way 4 very different people learn to live together and stay together to enjoy the next round of potentially life exploding tension . Pamper yourself, enjoy watching a bit of fair fighting. Afterwards, don't just sit their in the pews listening to long but very incomplete and same old same old excuses for a good sermon that leaves at least half the congregation without any absolution .

Schooling us in the secular

2009-11-16T21:51:00.000-08:00

In recent times we hear the doctrine from the left that there is no room for religion. If they are right ,that just leaves The State - the place where all good lefties now go for succour? No wonder they want us to support their church. Beats tithing !
But with the bureau as your bulwark , perhaps the high ideal of rational thinking would have a more honest scent if it didn't come so strongly now at the taxpayers expense? Why can longer "ideas on their own" be the driving force of change and testing before the people? Why compromise clarity with hype, spin, succour and schooling in the dull class of mere description? Not exactly a home for survival of the fittest??

Similiarly, If Ruse is right, the left may well be wrong to try and make secular the state schools of our countries.
The point is, whatever your worldview , the historic separation of church and state, in power and office terms, seems to work practically in both areas interests. Keeping them both "honest"? Nothing worse for the west, and rational led debate, than mixing such grand metaphors????

The new left wants to assert in some innovative new wave of singularly brilliant category control,but just like the emperors of old, that the only gods are man gods .
Everything good, or perhaps nothing good, will come from going beyond our ultimate faith in ourselves . We made this country it is ours . We must trust ourselves . "We are secular to the core-infact we were meant to be secular to the core"- we are being told .
Standing back , The core of a school is the ideas they present and how convincing those ideas are.

yet we have the credibility of the new left on education NOW completely at stake over their misplaced concreteness in education policy; confusing buildings with building; The education revolution has focused on structure and buildings ; the students on SBS ( maybe SBS could be religious diversity station?) reminded all Australia recently that that sort of talk and priority is unconvincing. If the shell is the substance , abcchurch leaders are clearly missing something. MCluhan wouldn't be confused - neither should any rational person about the dangers of letting the media run the religious campaigns.

The left want to assert the secular nature of education, and they have spent a lot of money to try and make it more so. Trouble is, even their own are not sending their children to secular schools.
So much for the power of ideas, and its place in modern fabian education?

The left once lived on the indipendant means of its own supporters and their ideas . I wonder how long it would survive today if the left didn't have the taxpayers support to tell us what's important, what to do , where to be and where to go to-and NOW to learn.
Maybe there is only one way to learn - do what you are told ? Do what the State says is important !

Lots of questions, assurances . but no answers

2009-09-18T18:12:00.001-07:00

This weeks sermon - all part of the doctrinal durge on hot air .
Aware that they need a new tack for the same old same old scare over hot air, the ABC call for the highest authority - a book and an overseas expert .( so much for their respect for our own scientists)
Naturally the new bod is as "coola s acucmber" because the audience are now ( because of the incompetent media meddling of the wannabe scaries) wary of hot air talk by hot air talkers .
Lea Sales questions to the latest guru on hot air were very good, but point is - there were no real answers, because there is no real commitment to cut on the edge , (TOO much ABC head led CA's , unlike SBS , where the audience talk freely) .
Nothings changed - only more "trust us".( we chose the bloke and we think when confidence is low - read a book?? Sorry read both the book AND the journal AND the workplace )
The problem is of course bigger than the ABC . The degradation of science for science sake to science for politics sake means many of those who don't play the pipers tune are out of the loop now and in no talk mode . ( they are usually also too busy working too, unlike some roman toga tories )
Lea 's energies would be better spent addressing the cutting edge issue under this sore. the politicization(especially result focused) of science in austaralis . The low % of scientists who can cite stuff on these new gas and wind studies is quite understandable. Carries no weight with those of us who don't limit our knowledge base to the years we spent at University. That would be dumb!
the 2 augurs -

Fear Not

2009-05-27T20:40:00.000-07:00

FEAR YES For I bring you bad tidings of great worry which shall infect the whole 774 listenership.
I worry about those who worry , and I worry about those who worry others with their worries - esp if they are unwarranted fears based on ignorance and arrogance -noise to keep us attentive to whats happening in the pulpit

Faine is at it again .This time he's worried about water.
"May has had its lowest rainfall for oh oh so long ' Brumby is coming in after 9 to solve this problem "
Next month, when it rains, it will be "landslides in the catchments" --one presumes . now there is the worry .For your information, the only time to review water restrictions ( seeing Faine doesn't know) in Victoria is in November .

Afraid of raw emotion?

2008-11-05T14:42:00.000-08:00

Nothing threatens any healthy church like the lack of serious talk , emotional outbursts or denial . One problem for abcchurch goers seems to be denial - " we never go there" " we just don't do "churchtime" .
Sure its a place most ABC powerpersons never see themselves going to - at least wittingly: but does it stop them sitting there --listening to the high priests and chiming in with the chorus ? Of course not - we all go to church somewhere?

How do THE REAL churches in our communities get people back there each week, without it being boring? How can church be serious and emotionally enjoyable at the same time? Well, let me tell you as one who loves to go , you won't find out by watching the Tv version- you have to go to a service that has both to really know HOW it happens !!

How do they keep doing it - not with threats and serious " danger talk?( like some we know) How do you get that fine balance of serious and smiling, happy to go , and "happy to be there" congregations?

No idea? you say ? - well simply you are not introduced to those types of people on TV ( except perhaps hymns of praise on Sundays and a few whose allegiance and reasonableness is seldom known. -
"I know "--someone might say --"get some modern music and new songs for the ABC"--some NEW choruses of concern. "Dangerous talk mate" ; "What do ou mean ditch the latest scare campaign for yet another????"

Another possible threat to ABCchurch seems to be denial about the possibile goodness or otherwise of emotional stuff . As everyone in the leadership knows, if you allow too much emotion in, you can lose control : the people may not take the old message too seriously - and if we are anything - " we are serious"here at ABCchurch . If we stand for anything- we stand for seriousness.Where does emotion fit with the nee Stoics ?
Why did ABCTV refuse to let Obama tell his story on prime time, featuring instead the predictable and pedantic Mr Smith and Mr Brumby . The high priests can't handle the emotion issue? . No good for a laugh - at least not when threatened by raw emotion

Bullshit- there is a lot of it still ....out there!

2008-08-14T17:06:00.000-07:00

"That's what you get outside" the preacher said . There is a lot of it out there influencing our young people even now" "Stop it" she said ( ABCTV qanda) "Throw all those old books in the bin" . The congregation rang out with a loud chorus of " Amen , sister" .
The service started well with a warm greeting to the unbeliever on the extreme right. But it soon deteriorated into a war of words and "I wannabe heard" claims . Even the arts critic ( marcus) couldn't seem to get beyond the politically correct paradigms that ruled from the front .

The OT reading came from the old book of FABIANISM " the only rule is that there are no rules ". This proverb pleased many ; Yes, it was clearly the solution to the aboriginal problem, just as its the solution to all problems .
The gospel reading, from the book of Childrens verse , was read clearly " We should only do as we like " ...."and the same is true of the aborigines". Self determination. A Wonderful , praiseworthy, doctrine
The problem neatly solved, the leaders of the service moved us onto how we could stop the Russians getting to port and the critical argument of the night; "You nedd to accept ; I thought of it first " ( The game created the most angst, did it not ?); who was first one to talk about carbon trading, the audience was asked to weigh in the court of petty chapel .
Really ...Who cares - You can be sure it wasn't a scientist ( there is too much rhetoric and idealism for us detail blokes to speak on that ----as science)

The unbeliever, by this time was clearly restless with the way the condemnation chorus was going; the chants were getter louder and more insistent around the same subject - lack of true faith by others . ( Maybe, just maybe , the reactionaries were not sure where they were going to from here - an apologetic for the day?) Maybe the biggest political problem in our own backyard is , as Jones put it ,the lack of narrative . Come on back to narrative then , you change for changes sake agents ! The revolutionaries, as always, turn out to be moving infront of revolving and reactionary doors.

Focusing on what the opposition are doing is also, not something a growing dynamic church does. Besides, the reality therapy of our lifetime doesn't really help the case. Marxist revolutionaries have, in the name of revolution , done more damage in the last century than the fundamentalists. Sure, Greg says , lets talk fanaticism , if you like - just be aware ....that you may infact show some of it yourself?? Do they have confession time at ABCchurch?

Finally, Bob puts his hand on the shoulder of the unbeliever.
" I'd like to pray for our beloved brother Greg here , that he might ...really, really see the light ; no longer be an unbeliever in what he too, can't see; save him from denial and scepticism about things we all know and believe to be true " .
A church meeting it was, if ever I've seen one. ABCTV QandA Thursday 14th August 2008

Skippers or Flippers - why the inequality, the hypocrisy

2008-06-13T23:09:00.000-07:00

Prue and Charlie (ABCTV qanda) were I think quite rightly questioning whether Rudds pontifications about whale eating were a little beyond the pale . Emperors in glass houses should not throw stones .
After all, he can't really do anything about the issue, but he is making the most of sitting on what appears to be the moral high ground . Shaky stuff-speacilly when the top of the food chain takes over his home town and he is forced to kill some of them .
Most importantly for realist idealists is the question whether there is any real practical difference between cutting up our own national emblem and culling any animal at the top of the food chain . Lions do it . Are whales sacred and kangaroos not?

Is the science of meat eating,teeth, temperament and trophism no longer the guiding principle of secularists? How can they be so selective in their "science?"
Sacrificing meat to idols was a big qanda in the 1st century . why in the world should it be one now? . St Paul said the fuss about meat was not a central one so what was a big quanda then became a non issue in the West for 20 centuries ?
Maybe not any more ? . What does it mean when our leader says "we worry" about every whale, when we generally accept careful culling in our own country.
Who would have thought some secularists in 21st century would be worried about eating meat sacrificed to idols?And with the hypocrisy of such a position obviuos to everyone but the emperor himsel . Does it make sense to you?

We make our own meaning

2007-09-16T23:36:00.001-07:00

The great high priest, Phillip Adams said it all on Sunday night ABC when he spelt out the above doctrine of meaning . Nothing new, of course, This brilliant sounding piece of doctrine means, at least for one thing , that he won't be insisting that other faiths are not able to take science facts and use them in another mix ..... as he does by calling for meaning out of soup.

ABC church, surely, is a mass of contradictions: While there is some consistency in that familiar note of fanaticism poking out awkwardledy from many of the corners the do what you feel like approach of the lead singers is sounding far too passe ; Can't quite work out how Adams epistemology works--: esp especially when he exorts us "to wonder" at what he says is "not wonderful".

What Adams doesn't seem to realise is that to talk of wonder is to talk of worship . His brilliant sounding Claytons remedy for wonder simply doesn't work -as the history and practice of ideas from Dostyevesky through Polpot , Eugenics and Hitler to the presents day medical mind study shows. If man is a mere animal, all he gets to play is mere animal . Its no fun ! There is no room for evil

While Adams would clearly would like to have his stale old anti celebration cake and eat it too with his preferred kind of icing - he only has steps to play with . You can't be "not religious" and "religious" at the same time . Paradox is part of reality mate - it used to be called dialectic - seems such talk in ABCchurch is heretical.
Adams seems to think we would all like to join a camp with boring old stepups all day .ABC church may be in charge of a few agendas but it doesn't mean the parish is not on the move or just plain fat asleep . Its a camp where everyone must focus only on the stairs - just millions of years of walking upstairs. Adams, like others with their blinkers on, would have us focus on the stairs rather than the view.
His insistence on myopia is as helpful, and as predictable, as his view of science ( or should we say science as the tree god of all knowledge)- Sound good till you come to the stairs questions and all you have is a rather wooden worldview. Still, as a agent of many truths its good to hear Phillip reflect that all WV's have their limits -his comment on the commos at age 15 . Pity he doesn't take the idea further at middle age limits. Forever the chamelion ?

When it comes to WV then ---I prefer mine . I find all his talk of the wonder of the stairs in his deterministic monistry deeply depressing. Not that as a scientist I am against recognising the stairs--its just that, unless I am mistaken, there is still some possibility that all the stairs are not the same are still very many missing and most scientists within all the branches , would probably not thank him for building bridge where there aren't any yet. Give me wondering how we could get here to such a wonderful view , over the moronic and meaningless worship of mere stairs. Every stair is , according to him, exactly the same . Some engineer- the bloke who invented that stair- what am i saying ............smack! We are in church!

As a scientist i know there are some stairs but I wouldn't be silly enough to say that each one is all down to a simple legup force. Feedback loops are just as important in the progress of any process of growth . I will reserve my judgement of the mechanics of natural selection till we know a little more about them

Personally I like to focus on 3 aspects of the same thing- I am a kind of trinitarian. My WV involves the stairs , the material the stairs are made of , as well as the view from the stairs. All part of the same unity regarding the world I find myself in - Its simply wonderful if you take enough time and thought to allow the big picture to take over. One wonderful fact, is of course, that HOWever it happened , We are here NOW to WITNESS It!

The personalisation of evil

2007-08-25T14:26:00.000-07:00

Dear old Spike M , as Jill called him on fridays's CH 774, needs a good home . The dear old high priest of reactionary medicine needs to go back to where he came from -where his passion for righteousness would find a good home ; Away from all this fear of mere men and worship of tactical materialism to a vision of a way around such profound dilemmas - a doctrine of evil that cuts where it counts . A doctrine that goes straight to the heart of the matter.

Phillip Adams personalisation of evil ( Mr Bush ) just doesn't help . While his advice " 3 more terms of comfort ye comfort ye" was funny at the time, the singing in his beloved church is getting very dirgy -predictable dull and poorly targeted - not enough to inspire us to keep watching or go there for a lift before monday
Knock down the Bush barrier and you will find a barrier just as big and even more devious than the one targeted . ABC church needs a doctrine of evil with a bit more guts to it. One that might have a hope of seeing the beast before you shoot at it - the deeper paradigm of a angel of light might get the growing gulf between ideas and action at abc church "moving on "( another favourite service call - cf " you may be seated " ).

The hills are alive with the sound of cynicism

2007-04-04T14:34:00.000-07:00

How about a song for Easter ? Now that the dark part of Easter is upon us,( Maundy Thursday) I thought you stoic types might like to test out the tension between the dark side and the light side .
Maybe such a digging session would help us all lighten up a bit , like that angel chorus at Christmas time - perhaps you could prod and poke the past for the signs and substance of hope in our culture.
The new merriment machines and the old mood inducing chocolates do not seem to manufacture hope for long .
Hope can last for a very long time,according to the old Easter story, if you deal properly and effectively with the dark side.

The preaching of righteousness is a heavy burden

2007-02-12T16:00:00.000-08:00

The good that we would have others do
The sermon on Monday's conversation hour caused a predicatable ruccus in the back row from Richard Stubbs . We should , should we???? You want ME to get rid of my stuff. I 'm with you stubbsy - they couldn't convince us about WHY , except to say . Believe us - if we get big business to act - it will stop the sky from falling. Every ones entitled to their own beliefs . More important, where is the gospel in all this -otherwise i think i will listen to CD's next sunday/monday

The same old same old continues every week . We MUST get them/everyone else to " do the right thing" on greenhouse and global warming. Some abc presenters must be getting a bit sick of playing priest and "authorities" on all matters risk , cause all this warning and education stuff ( say on water and fire risk )"is making us sound like our parents" . something we definitely don't ever want to do ! Why don't we just leave it to the experts .good question !
The ABC is getting to be no fun church anymore . How did it get to where it is now? Isn't there a better model for motivation for the audience at least?
How do we get the world to change? Don wants more regulation more law --but is that going to work? Can we make people good or do good ? very one sided worldview!

Where is the post modernists theory of effective action when you really need it ? We've tried selling the inheritance( telstra) , education ( ho hum ) and now they've drummed up the media and film industry into a frenzy- its still not going to work - partly because its not about clear needed action( the stuff that made the west best ) but guilt, denial and reactionary rebellion.You can tell that as a clearly focused ecosyetam risk management agent because they don't really listen to those who would use the money effectively anyway!. The majority of people incl Mr thwaites are throwing mere tokens at the threats .

Good governance in the face of real threats REQUIRES weighing up how big the fire is before you put even one drop of precious antidote on it . If the media and the polys were really together on these things, as they make out they are - There would would have not left so many dead ends in the action pile. WE list them here/.
Maybe richard . like us, smelt a rat . The idea of the rationalists there present that morning ; "that reason and being reasonable works " sort of falls apart when you see all the excuses people make and the tokens they buy instead of taking the medicine . Its a get me generation and preaching is out of fashion with secularists and materailaists in particular . After all materialists have been preaching for decades that time is always about progress. Not only "if it going to happen it was meant to happen" but - it will all be good - like some new psalm "even though i walk by the shadow of global warmng i will not fear because evolution is here".
People are ALSO more irrational than rationalists give them credit for .whose families have they been studying ?
Far more helpful is to go back to the old worldview where men are mostly in 2 minds and living it . We say one thing and do another .We give the impresion we are committed if we think "its the right thing to do at the time" . The woman with nothing gives more than those who give lots because they have to or because they have a lot and or because it looks good . Does anyone ask - will it work?
. we know if you don't--- the answer to that question !
Don had a more "progessive" idea out of the box - more regulation - force people to be good . At least one of mc mullans guests ( on ABCTV that night) was having none of that nonsense either. Progress on this debate comes from where ?

Will the end of all this post modern preaching be just more heaviness?And don't give us the "this is science and jury stuff ' Don't believe either always knows what the big picture truth is . More importantly , the door is so clearly closed on open discussion on these matters that sound risk managers just retire from service - get real.

Huddled around the holy fire

2007-02-02T12:41:00.000-08:00

Desperate for news of the latest person to agree with their latest piece of non scientific fanaticsm ABCTV are reduced to quoting a UN resolution as top news on friday night ( 2nd February )Report itself complete with added pictures of falling ice and yet to be seen rising seas levels have been listed in Kohlers column under falling stocks ( those with lowering credibility) .

Doomsayers

2006-10-31T11:20:00.000-08:00

The Paradox is profound. Denton and Feine agreeing about the dangers of end of the world preachers,(God is on my side) when their church has just spent the whole day trying to get us to be convinced we are approaching doomsday over our failure to sign up to Kyoto. You mean a resolution agreed to at a meeting of wannatalks? You mean a resolution widely recognised as limited , drawn up in haste -producing waste?

Only since doctrinal matters became so important has it not mattered who teaches them . Even "normally unbelievable and untrustworthy blokes" like Blair , Gore and normally unherad of US polys get sung too for talking about our favourite subjects : science and practice- subjects for which they are .......

You are right about one thing boys - emotional people are dangerous. Unfortunately though , that should never stop us silencing them and ourselves because we all agree such people are neccesary to motivate us to change . Skeptics are necessary- science labs are full of them.
Since when has complacency and lack of emotion been on any serious church's agenda ?

Lecturing us about good behaviour

2006-10-10T15:55:00.000-07:00

Jon Faine's insists some messages we need to hear . You can read about it here

The Doctrine of Mere Facts

2006-10-02T14:31:00.000-07:00

Like the doctrine of mere laws, explored by many faiths from the Pharisees up ( depending on your worldview of course) the doctrine of mere facts just doesn't hold water. The more you fill the vessel up with mere bits , the more it leaks.
Contraindicated by "the empty tank syndrome" ,this old doctrine is known in some theological circles as one that fails the Solidworks test ; no proper framework to hold the bits together. Theology is the glue and while there is no respect for it -the essential need for glue (eg:when mere facts are the focus) ; something has to give -this is one big picture thing that students of Hegel shood noo! Copyright

No laughing aloud

2006-09-16T16:05:00.000-07:00

It's no fun in this club. Everybodies getting far too seriuos. Take Denton listening to Al Gore for a whole program - Since when has a religious lefty sat worshipfully ( he wasn't quite!) at some American polys feet. ! Rope needs to be a bit shorter mate!

Jumping at shadows

2006-09-06T21:55:00.000-07:00

How many "progressives" does it take to change a lightbulb?
"What do you mean 'How many?' That's the wrong question.
We're not here to change the lightbulbs, but to affirm their lightedness."There are many different ways they express their inner light, and if one of them is through darkness who are we to say that's wrong? That's being noctaphobic and intolerant of the wider spectrum.
"We need to learn to embrace the darkness and see the light within it, to move with them through it, finding that darkness is a new expression of lightedness that is to be valued and accepted as one of many ..."

Innocent of evil

2006-08-14T19:54:00.000-07:00

Phillip Adams seeks to "find" and locate the evil .( Australian Newspaper )

History and science are agreed that we , at least in part, are clearly products of our own history . Why then do so many ageing reactionaries seem to live in denial of it. Wanting even to revise our view of our history . Surely there was something good in what ABC churchgoers inherited from their parents ? Do you identify it , or deny it ?
For example Your passion for justice, truth and the Australian ( dare i say ABC way ) way . Why then do you deny , over many decades now , ABC TV audiences exposure to the history of ideas and insist on pulling down so much that's gone before.

Old Spoil Sports

2006-07-23T07:16:00.000-07:00

Compass program ads; Bill- that Terrible preacher man--- he hands out lollies -are you really such a tired old bunch of grumps??????

Think you might have missed something in the translation . Jesus fed the five thousand cause they were hungry and even gave them more wine - they liked it--great bloke - you want to meet him !. same with bill and I'm glad I did !

Bill the preachers is doing great and demanding work in NewYork, yet he's in trouble for handing out lollies .Give it a rest .
Surely we in Aust could do with a sweetener for the rough logic of our ghettos and the careless critics who write reports and refuse to redirect a few genuinely hopeful things in their direction.

Deterministic doctrines

2006-01-13T03:31:00.000-08:00

Mark Latham ( in his diaries ) reflects how he was surprised by how much his views were anti- establishment . He shouldn't be . neither should the ABC. Its part of the essential unquestaionable doctrines of ABC church .

Snobbishness in the ABC

2005-12-04T14:46:00.000-08:00

Oh no , it couldn't happen Or is that just another reason so many of us SWITCH OFF our beloved ABC. Ref Period pieces 5 dec

Excommunication

2005-09-01T22:01:00.000-07:00

Debbie Enka should watch out. Anyone who does not agree that The ABC is the true church, does not just leave , they were "dumped". Jon Feine commenting on George Negus's Departure.

Afraid of Evil ? So we should be !

2005-08-31T22:42:00.000-07:00

Some of the congregation( Tania 774pm ) are more than a little worried about the dark side coming out in childrens films and books like W Wonka .Lucky our kids don't read the Bible anymore eh ? -its full of murder and violence even by the so called "role" models.
No I think its time we stopped worrying ourselves sick about the evil you encounter when you get outside the building. Children respond to the idea of choc coated evil very close to home, even if ageing reactionaries just don't want to admit to it. Just watch them share the duplo!

Dark talk is welcome

2005-08-31T20:48:00.000-07:00

Everything is fine it seems , provided we are in agreement and well defined against the opposition . The other school talks of light . We must talk of Darkness..
While this paradigm boundary creates a sense of unity , it forces the congregation to hide real issues and differences , especially as we have to deal with real families and decisions as we grow up . The problem is that this public face of dark talk only creates a sense of avoidance , confusion and depression in our communities .

Absolutely -a bit of heresy detected

2005-06-14T06:56:00.000-07:00

For those unconvinced that even in church there is heresy creeping in , notice how often" (774 in the afternoon for eg) they and their guests now use the words "absolutely' and the adjectives "right" and "wrong" . Do the post modernists really believe in moral relativism or have some of us switched channels and not admitted to it?

Who goes to Church ?

2005-05-18T16:03:00.000-07:00

Well anyone who works there i guess for a start. But you say ther is no PC in the ABC - i think the audience recognise that most attendees support the post modern view that values are subjective and therefore defining the nature of good and evil ,is if not out, a place you don't go. But by not stating a position, you state a position . Hence the PC element and the intellectual and doubt difficulty with the youngens world view thats not quite working as well as its supposed to !

You don't have to believe everything that's said there of course , but if you work there, you learn one thing - you don't easily raise questions which challenge clear doctrine like that above .
unless you ask those "questions" in a certain exacting way where they can be given a predictable and set answer.
Don't dare ask a really wild question like "why are so many pagans and atheists sending there kids to religious schools - or what is about islam that is so attractive?" Instead we get " what do you think about people coming into schools to preach ? All hands are raised in gloriuos chorus of agreement Not a doubt surfaces in abcchurch because of the way the questions are put ! Doubts then are dismissed by a few words rather than real dialogue something that's rare at the ABC at least on 774 and TV -------and could make it so much greater.

All other types of church people are extremists

2005-05-01T18:31:00.000-07:00

Don't talk about some things ! Could create division and reduce simplicity . Compass and religious affairs finally start talking about what is happening in middle ground churches- the biggest community event EACH WEEK for centuries and when have you ever seen it on TV till FAMILY FIRST and vicar of dibley arrived ! .

Thou shalt be cynical

2005-03-03T18:20:00.000-08:00

In order to enjoy Mary and Charles's visit one should sit on one's hands in church lest a heretical thought about the dangers of being nice to the diefied and the conservative in our midst , forces its ways into prayertime.

Blessed are they who bombard the guest with questions

2004-12-22T03:18:00.000-08:00

Going on the machine gun approach to questions adopted by John Cleary to the former Indonesian leader last Sunday ,the number of questions has more value than the answers. Very greek but not very effective . Dialogue loses out by mixing cultures carelessly. Maybe we listen, they talk - not good dialogue if you don't dig .

Tear down straw men - avoid God who judges with impunity?

2004-12-12T14:55:00.000-08:00

Silence in whose church? John Cleary’ s program ABC local radio 12 December Sunday night
The church of God hasn’t failed mate. Secularism has ! Take Nannyism ( check out blogspot ) . Take political correctness. Take meddling social policies that cost the earth, but do not cut where it counts. Chesterton was right to predict it --a whole century of no progress for the reactionaries and there costly rhetoric .

Old lefties and rebels from the faith of our forefathers don’t have influence: They have jobs in the public service where they meddle and nit pick . The faith of our forefathers was on a proven , effective and efficient road to liberty and freedom. The faith of those who have rejected that faith is now in the law and its extremely costly, unsustainable , pedantic and politically correct” thou shalt not talk “policies .

The latest convert? Anthony Green?

2004-11-17T21:21:00.000-08:00

Previously well know for his indipendant advice, Anthony Green steeped over that invisible line near the altar after the election to preach the simple doctrine "something had wrong" and therefore "something needed to change' .You mean to say that after all these years the greens had been wrong to do what they did " Didn't know it was his was his job to say so. ABC --not revolutionaries - reactionaries .

Living on the past

2004-11-08T03:11:00.000-08:00

The main reason for setting up this page is to get some decent debate about the sacred cows of ABC church . The degree to which the ageing doctrines of many lefties in the ABC and journalism is limiting their ability to keep in touch with real people, their ambitions and concerns.( esp Australia)

The best illustration in recent times is a reluctance to accept that the West is more conservative than " they are supposed to be ". The media in general failed to anticipate election results in both Australia and the USA . Noone in the media predicted that people would vote against "the new church" when the weakness of their tired old woosy doctrines is increasingly evident everywhere .

The media, in general, wanted to believe the left was in ascendancy when its doctrines are clearly less effective at conversion and membership level. The doctrines of the 60's reactionaries have been tested and failed. People outside the church can see it more as time goes by .
The left has its own morality, conversion and salvation doctrines ----- but the members are in denial about even that .